中国40架歼10B急赴巴铁 美网民炸了锅

据美国Defense-Update网站报道，中国正在为巴基斯坦提供一个J-10B多用途全天候战机中队。据称，此事是在巴基斯坦陆军部参谋长瓦伊德·阿萨德赴北约进行为期一周的访问时敲定的。如果交易发生，巴基斯坦将成为继中国后首个列装J-10B战机的国家。

报道称，中巴两国已就相关J-10战机相关交易进行了多年的谈判，巴基斯坦希望进口至少两个该款战机中队。巴基斯坦空军每个空军中队大约有20架作战飞机，两个中队40架的歼10B对于巴基斯坦来说其重要性不言而喻，据信，此次交易中提及的B型战机性能堪比F-16 Block 50/52战机。

除达成有关J-10B战机的协议之外，在瓦伊德·阿萨德中将访问中国期间，中方还保证两国防务关系将上升到一个新的高度，而且中国还将永远致力于保障巴基斯坦安全。访问期间，瓦伊德·阿萨德拜访了人民解放军副总参谋长马晓天，以及包括中国人民解放军国防大学副校长任海泉在内的其他官员。

目前，中巴两国也已开始生产由中国设计的JF-17战机。目前巴基斯坦正在其境内建造JF-17战机，并积极向海外市场推销这款战机。

最新型J-10B战机于2009年首飞。其与J-10战机的显着区别在于加装了可降低战机雷达信号的新型天线罩。除天线罩之外，重新设计的进气口除提高了气体流量之外，也提高了战机的隐身性能。J-10B战机垂直尾翼、舱内挂架都加装了航空电子设备，其中可能包括各种传感器与电子对抗设施。该型战机还加装了一个新型光电传感器，很可能是前视红外搜索和跟踪系统。据信，与J-10A型相比，B型战机可加装更加强大的发动机和雷达系统。(增华)

评论：因为本拉登和美国撕破脸之后，美国又对巴铁冻结了美元援助，两国关系一度紧张，这让巴铁明显有了不安全感，巴总理吉拉尼访华是为了寻求政治上的帮助，但显然中国的声援是不够的，军事援助才是作为一个盟友应尽的义务，所以才有了先前的50架枭龙，而现在又有了这40架歼10B，我想最头疼应该不是美国，美国只是不敢再轻侮巴铁，真正要头疼的应该是阿三。

中国正在为巴基斯坦提供一个J-10B多用途全天候战机中队。据称，此事是在巴基斯坦陆军部参谋长瓦伊德·阿萨德赴北约进行为期一周的访问时敲定的。如果交易发生，巴基斯坦将成为继中国后首个列装J-10B战机的国家。

评论翻译:

A评论：(每个评论下面都有许多回复，就直接列在每个评论的下面，每个评论前面我都会表个字母)。

作战子系统日益齐全

[–]boomer56 104 points 13 hours ago*

Also, an attack on Pakistan is an attack on China.

Edit: The more I think about this, the more incredible this policy change becomes...China guaranteeing Pakistani security? What is India thinking tonight?

我越想，这个政策。。。。中国担保巴基斯坦的安全?印度今天会想什么?

Isentrope 18 points 9 hours ago

It's not really much of a policy change and India has known this for a long while. Pakistan and China have very strong relations with one another and China has openly sent material and weapons to Pakistan to aid in fighting India.

这个政策并不会改变多少，印度明白这个很久了。中国和巴基斯坦彼此有很牢固的关系，中国公开送原材料和武器给巴基斯坦用来对抗印度。

[–]ashray 12 points 7 hours ago

Including Nukes. This was alleged for a long time but recently confirmed based on some de-classification. The Wikipedia article on it has this info:

包括核武器，这已经被宣扬很长时间了，但是最近才根据一些文件确认，维基百科上的文章有些信息。

[–]princeton_cuppa 4 points 3 hours ago

exactly, pak nukes = made in china pak exists because of hatred of india which china feeds since it hates India/US/Japan - practically anything which can potentially kicks China's butt.

正确，巴基斯坦的核武器=中国制造。巴基斯坦的存在是因为中国培养的对印度的仇恨，自从中国讨厌印度/美国/日本-实际上无论什么事都可能用来踢中国的屁股。

Isentrope 1 point 19 seconds ago

China's hatred for India stems from when they had a hardline Prime Minister in the late '50s early '60s (Nehru I think? Not sure about that). Prior to this the two countries actually had extremely good relations, but the political shift occurred after Tibet was occupied by the PLA; prior to that, one of the intentions of having Tibet be independent in the first place was to act as a buffer between China and India the same way Nepal and Bhutan function.

Chinese hatred for Japan is pretty self explanatory, and Chinese hatred for the US has died down in recent years out of more of a desire to emulate the US' success.

中国对印度的憎恨源于当时的印度有一个强硬派总理，在50年代后期和60年代的初期(我猜是尼赫鲁?但是不确认)。在这之前这两个国家有非常好的关系，但是政策突然发生变化在西藏被人民解放军占领以后;在此之前，印度支持让西藏独立的目的之一起初是让西藏像尼泊尔和不丹一样作为两国之间的缓冲区。

中国对日本的憎恨纯粹就是不需要解释的，中国对美国的憎恨是由于希望模仿美国的成功当美国在最近几年开始逐渐没落的时候。

去年和今年的《防卫白皮书》，都是菅直人内阁批准的，都同样不遗余力地炒作“中国威胁”，但也显示出民主党政权前后自相矛盾。白皮书看不见民主党在大选期间向选民许诺的“重视亚洲”、推进“东亚共同体”等方针，转为炒作“中国威胁”。近来菅直人内阁支持率跌落至20%以下，主要是未能兑现政权公约，不仅内政，外交亦然。

民主党政权眼下也是自相矛盾。一方面表示重视中国市场，以此推动日本经济，希望更多中国游客来日促进日本观光事业，另一方面却把自己最大的贸易伙伴视作“威胁”，无异于“端起碗吃肉，放下碗骂人”。

日媒认为遏制中国不容易

日本此番举动，究其深层次原因是对中国的快速发展很不适应，对中国国防的正常活动则更不适应，吴怀中表示，“零和竞争”思维导致其心态失衡和焦虑，这种心态随着近年中国国力和军力的进一步崛起越发明显。钓鱼岛、东海大陆架、军事发展、资源并购等等，凡是可资利用的话题几乎都被用来炮制事端和渲染威胁。缘其如此，就有了拉上美国还不够，还要拉上周边国家、搭上“南海问题”来防堵中国的失常外交行为。

日本共同社发表评论说，在日本2011年版《防卫白皮书》中，针对中国迅速扩充军备的警惕感随处可见。白皮书还详细描述了中国与部分东盟国家存在主权争议的南海问题。日本欲在日美同盟的基础上联手东盟构筑对华包围网的意图明显。但是，要遏制在军事、经济两方面影响力均在提高的中国并非易事。

B.评论：

petewilko 38 points 11 hours ago

Nothing new, India and China continue to have issues with each other. Anytime you hear of some military airplanes India acquires, usually you'll find its range is able of a round trip to Beijing.

没有新意，印度和中国互相总是有矛盾。你听到的所有关于印度获得的一些关于战斗机的消息，我们会发现这些战斗机的航程能够到北京飞一个来回。 www.junshijia.com 爱国交流理性平台

[–]itcouldbe 34 points 10 hours ago

The PRC seems to have issues with all its neighbors.

中国似乎与他所有的邻居都有矛盾。

[–]gsfgf 14 points 4 hours ago

It's between Russia and India. Anyone would have neighbor issues. www.junshijia.com 军情第一站

这是俄罗斯与印度之间的问题，大家与邻居都有矛盾。

[–]Tornado54 3 points 2 hours ago

Really? why would anyone have issues with India again?

真的?为什么大家与印度总有矛盾?

[–]314R8 3 points 2 hours ago

and what about Taiwan, Japan, Korea, phillipines etc? How come China has issues with all of them? (I can see the historic issue with Japan, but what about the others?)

Maybe China does not like it's democratic neighbors? or the problem IS China 转自米尔军情网 http://www.junshijia.com

对于台湾，日本，韩国，菲律宾怎么样?中国怎么和它们都有矛盾?(我知道日本是因为历史原因，但是其他呢?)

中国可能不喜欢他的民主邻居们?或者说问题在中国。

[–]ofisnothavedamnit 3 points 53 minutes ago

Issues with Taiwan are no surprise really. The guy who Mao drove out to make modern China retreated to Taiwan and the rest of the world defended him there. Not only that, but PRC wasn't recognized as a country for a long period of time by US and Europe and instead the government in Taiwan was recognized as a the Chinese government. There is a lot of history to Chinese relations with its neighbors and it is definitely not an issue of China just blindly hating democracies. After all, Pakistan is technically a democracy and borders China and they seem to have pretty amicable relations.

By the way, I am not taking sides on any of those conflicts. They were all pretty complicated.

和台湾有矛盾真的一点都不令人惊讶。被毛泽东逐出的那帮人让近代中国撤退到台湾，世界上其他的国家都帮他们保卫台湾。不仅如此，中华人民共和国很长时间都不被美国和欧洲承认，作为代替，台湾政府被认为是中国政府。这里有很多关于中国和他邻居矛盾关系的历史，而不是中国只是盲目的恨民主。毕竟，巴基斯坦也是一个民主国家，而且还跟中国接壤，他们看起来非常友好。顺便说一下，我并没有偏袒任何一方，他们之间太复杂了。

[–]314R8 1 point 20 minutes ago

Pakistan's only China border is via Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. But yes, China has good relations with one of its neighbors - Pakistan. Yippee

巴基斯坦和中国唯一的边界是被巴基斯坦占领的克什米尔。能确定的是，中国和巴基斯坦有很好的关系。欢呼!

C评论：

[–]timoleon 5 points 3 days ago

I'd be more concerned with the price Pakistan will have to pay for such diplomatic niceties. More territorial concessions perhaps?

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我更关心巴基斯坦为此付出的代价。领土的让步?

[–]spoonybard326 19 points 3 days ago

I'm guessing the price they paid has something to do with pictures of helicopter wreckage.

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我猜他们付出的代价跟那架直升机碎片的照片有关(译者注：美军打死拉丹掉的那架改装的黑鹰直升机)

[–]nibblerslitterbox 11 points 3 days ago

Pictures, pieces, whole parts. Bingo.

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照片，残片，整个部分，你说中了

[–]Druuseph 8 points 3 days ago

To be honest the helicopter is not really that important. The modifications to it were simply noise reducing, it's unlikely there was any kind of radar shielding besides a smoothed nose. It was more than likely nothing more than a Navy version of a Black Hawk with the tail replaced, it's not some super futuristic death-copter and as shown the modifications weren't exactly the best considering the damn thing lost balance when it went to hover. I know a few engineers who work for Sikorsky and when they were looking at that tail they nearly fell out of their chair wondering who though that was a good idea. A fifth blade and a covering on the middle completely changes the stabilizing capacity, it's not optimal for that body. If they really wanted a 'stealth' helicopter they should have looked into creating something similar to the Comanche which has a covered fan that provides more torque while reducing noise.

Now what they might want is the avionics that may have survived the explosion, that is true, but the 'stealth' tech is not nearly as high tech or incredible as it's being made out to be.

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诚实来讲，直升机还不值那么多钱。改装的直升机只是简单的减少了噪音。不可能有雷达干扰设备除开光滑的机头。跟海军的黑鹰直升机差别不大，只是尾翼被取代了。这并不是超级未来的牛逼直升机，只是简单的修改而且还没有考虑到特殊情况以至于盘旋的时候失去了平衡。我认识一些为SIKORSKY公司工作的工程师，当他们看到这个尾巴时，他们几乎离开了椅子想知道谁想的馊主意。第五个直升机的叶片和在中间的覆盖物彻底改变了直升机的稳定性，这并不是最佳的改造对于这款直升机来说。如果他们真的想要隐形直升机，他们应该创造一个类似于科曼奇能够覆盖住螺旋桨并能提供更大的扭矩而且能缩减噪音。

他们想要的只可能是在爆炸中幸免于难的航空电子设备，这是对的，但是隐形技术远非被制造成的那么高科技或者那么不可置信的。

我甚至怀疑他们能够得到航空电子设备，因为就我所看的消息，他们花了很多时间去破坏直升机，甚至超过他们寻找目标(这里的他们是指美国海军陆战队) 米尔军事论坛 bbs.junshijia.com