You argued a lot about the examples I gave, but didn't tough a bit my point that "判断
西藏问题解决办法好坏的标准是什么？只有一条：西藏人民的生活，包括精神的和
物质的，是否会更好。谁最有权作出这个判断？西藏人民。"
You cannot challege it, can you?
Forgive me, I have to say that you are not logical. Here are some examples:
2。”西藏现在在政治上和法律上都是中国的一部分，但曾经不是。“ The T.W. Green Party would say, T.W.曾经...但Now不是;
First, you implied that anything from T.W. Green Party is wrong (what's green party anyway?). Secondly, I just told a fact. A fact is a fact. It won't change a bit no mater what T.W. Green Party says, wrong or right. Let me remind you again, my point is, these historical facts are irrelevant in solving current disputes. Any solution has to improve people's life, regardless of historical facts.
The key point here is, WHEN曾经不是? -- from 周天子, or from 清天子？ or, somewhere from 唐天子 was "不是"?!
You are really amazing. What kind of "key" is this? What difference does the answer to this question make?
3. "回归历史不会给人民的生活带来任何好处。所以，统一不一定不好。" 为了防止回教徒和印度教徒之间的一场内战，...所以，分裂也不一定不好。-- who LOVE to hear this? 六国? 印度和巴基斯坦本是一个国家? 达赖喇嘛? or, T.W.G.P.?"?!
You made me laugh. Again, a fact is a fact, no matter who love it, who don't.
Your arguement here souns too familiar. The Communist Party has been using it again and again, especially during the "cultural revolution" period, to forbit freedom of speech. "You are not allowed to say this and this, because the class enemies love what you are goning to say." They've shamelessly hidden, altered, even mad up facts, in the name of the "interests of the country and the party" . I don't blame you for having this ridiculous way of thinking. You are apperently brain washed. But wake up, please. Chinese people have suffered enough because of it. Just causes don't fear truth. Only injust causes do.
You don't know 印度和巴基斯坦本是一个国家? Study history, then.
4. 西藏, part of our homeland, "We stand on guard for thee. "! If one day he tells your son(s) that 松赞干布 was an Italian or whatever, you should sing this with your son(s) -- .
You have no right to deny 西藏people's right to choose their way of living.
Let me ask you a question: If you are the prime minister of Canada and Quebec declears independence. What are you going to do? Send troops?
I stand for one thing and one thing only: the interests and happiness of people. I'll feel shamed if I don't.
Let the past past. It's simplly impossible to go back to it. So, let's keep the curent situation. If there are any disputes, let's solve them by talk, instead of weapons; second, again, any solution has to improve people's life, regardless of historical facts.
If you want to continue to argue, you are going to have to learn some basic logic. Otherwise, I'm not going to respond. I cannot argue with a unreasonable person.
最初由 弄舟 发布：
西藏现在在政治上和法律上都是中国的一部分，但曾经不是。事实就这么简单。判断
西藏问题解决办法好坏的标准是什么？只有一条：西藏人民的生活，包括精神的和
物质的，是否会更好。谁最有权作出这个判断？西藏人民。
中国在战国时代分为七国。如果“民族感情”意味着领土完整高于一切的话，那么
被消灭的六国岂不应该世世代代“浴血奋战”，恢复版图？相信不会有什么人这
么认为，尽管对秦统一六国的是非的争论从未停止过。原因只有一个：回归历史不
会给人民的生活带来任何好处。所以，统一不一定不好。
印度和巴基斯坦本是一个国家，一个民族。可是，为了防止回教徒和印度教徒之间
的一场内战，甘地同意巴基斯坦独立。所以，分裂也不一定不好。
体会体会达赖喇嘛的智慧吧。他在解释为什么放弃西藏独立的主张时说，领土不重
要，人民的福祉最重要。
I do not agree with you.
1. "中国在战国时代分为七国" -- it was from 周天子 called 中国！秦was to 统一中国!
2。”西藏现在在政治上和法律上都是中国的一部分，但曾经不是。“ The T.W. Green Party would say, T.W.曾经...但Now不是;
The key point here is, WHEN曾经不是? -- from 周天子, or from 清天子？ or, somewhere from 唐天子 was "不是"?!
3. "回归历史不会给人民的生活带来任何好处。所以，统一不一定不好。" 为了防止回教徒和印度教徒之间的一场内战，...所以，分裂也不一定不好。-- who LOVE to hear this? 六国? 印度和巴基斯坦本是一个国家? 达赖喇嘛? or, T.W.G.P.?
4. 西藏, part of our homeland, "We stand on guard for thee. "! If one day he tells your son(s) that 松赞干布 was an Italian or whatever, you should sing this with your son(s) --
O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide, O Canada,
We stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
Don't we feel shame if even forget this song?!
呵呵，可笑，你知道我们在讨论什么吗？
我们讨论的问题是 西藏是否是中国的一部分？你一直在说民族感情，民族凝聚力非常重要。民族感情非常重要，但那不能回答这个问题“西藏是否属于中国”
最初由 web369 发布：
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My friend, I appreciate your feedback; however, I feel sorry for what you said...
西方人, include the Japs,would be very much happy, if 解决这个问题不用民族感情! and, 西方人 would be very much excited if one day, 中国人, like one of us around HERE, do not have 汉族民族感情!
However, my friend, have 西方人 ever had their own 民族感情? do they ever 解决问题不用民族感情?! Do you take course at school with 西方人? Do you work with any 西方人? Do you find yourself sometimes feel too much 西方人's 民族感情 that you would not feel comfortable with?!
Based on what you say, "同样的道理，你能理解西藏人对佛法的深信不疑吗？他们能３跪９叩的去朝拜达赖喇嘛等等你能理解吗？那以他们的对西藏的感情，认为西藏应该是自己的土地，而不是附属中国的不就合情合理了吗？" then, 达赖喇嘛would "认为西藏应该是自己的土地，而不是附属中国', for more from this point, the T.W. Green party could "认为...应该是自己的土地，而不是附属中国的不就合情合理了吗?"
One day, when the Great Wall falls, that's the day that our own民族感情 falls!
I welcome all other readers express their feedback on this issue.
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MCPD.ead
2005-07-28 18:12
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最初由 鬼娃娃归来 发布：
哎，你真能胡说，你无非是想说，因为我是中国人，我对中国，中国文化有强烈的感情，所以我就能说，被占领的西藏就是中国的一部分，西方人不能理解这种感情，所以他们说西藏不是中国的一部分。
你想想你这话有多滑稽，同样的道理，你能理解西藏人对佛法的深信不疑吗？他们能３跪９叩的去朝拜达赖喇嘛等等你能理解吗？那以他们的对西藏的感情，认为西藏应该是自己的土地，而不是附属中国的不就合情合理了吗？
记住，这个问题不是用民族感情就能解决的，看谁的民族感情，看西藏人，汉族人还是西方人？
=============
My friend, I appreciate your feedback; however, I feel sorry for what you said...
西方人, include the Japs,would be very much happy, if 解决这个问题不用民族感情! and, 西方人 would be very much excited if one day, 中国人, like one of us around HERE, do not have 汉族民族感情!
However, my friend, have 西方人 ever had their own 民族感情? do they ever 解决问题不用民族感情?! Do you take course at school with 西方人? Do you work with any 西方人? Do you find yourself sometimes feel too much 西方人's 民族感情 that you would not feel comfortable with?!
Based on what you say, "同样的道理，你能理解西藏人对佛法的深信不疑吗？他们能３跪９叩的去朝拜达赖喇嘛等等你能理解吗？那以他们的对西藏的感情，认为西藏应该是自己的土地，而不是附属中国的不就合情合理了吗？" then, 达赖喇嘛would "认为西藏应该是自己的土地，而不是附属中国', for more from this point, the T.W. Green party could "认为...应该是自己的土地，而不是附属中国的不就合情合理了吗?"
One day, when the Great Wall falls, that's the day that our own民族感情 falls!
I welcome all other readers express their feedback on this issue.
哎，你真能胡说，你无非是想说，因为我是中国人，我对中国，中国文化有强烈的感情，所以我就能说，被占领的西藏就是中国的一部分，西方人不能理解这种感情，所以他们说西藏不是中国的一部分。
你想想你这话有多滑稽，同样的道理，你能理解西藏人对佛法的深信不疑吗？他们能３跪９叩的去朝拜达赖喇嘛等等你能理解吗？那以他们的对西藏的感情，认为西藏应该是自己的土地，而不是附属中国的不就合情合理了吗？
记住，这个问题不是用民族感情就能解决的，看谁的民族感情，看西藏人，汉族人还是西方人？
最初由 web369 发布：
My friend, those 西方学者 have never been able to understand why you will cry when you read 《满江红〉和《正气歌》！
This is not 政治系统 or 历史观不同. This is your root, your blood, from your father...from your motherland!
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MCPD.ead
2005-07-28 17:11
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最初由 鬼娃娃归来 发布：
错，历史观不一样，即使是同样的事实，也有不同的看法。
研究中国历史的西方学者还不至于中国历史史实都不精通，研究中国历史的西方学者，对中国历史的了解程度，跟中国学者不相上下。即使一般西方人，对中国历史极有兴趣的，也能得到丰富的中国历史史实，所以极有可能对中国历史的了解程度比一般中国人高。
问题出在政治系统，历史观不同。
My friend, those 西方学者 have never been able to understand why you will cry when you read 《满江红〉和《正气歌》！
This is not 政治系统 or 历史观不同. This is your root, your blood, from your father...from your motherland!
最初由 condition zero 发布：
that is why u are a highschool students say 西藏是中国的一部分, after u are mature and has more history knowledge u would not believe it.
按照你的意思就是是说西藏不是中国的一部分??
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Wassup
2005-07-28 14:36
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What makes you think you have the right to decide what kids shoud DO or NOT DO even before they are born?!
The author of the post is very Eastern, view his/her kids as personal assets. This is incompatbile here, it simply won't work.
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condition zero
2005-07-28 14:13
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that is why u are a highschool students say 西藏是中国的一部分, after u are mature and has more history knowledge u would not believe it.
最初由 也许 发布：
我不知道作者是通过什麽渠道出来的，我想即使是一个从大陆来的高中生也能回答为什麽西藏是中国的一部分。
shame!
最初由 ddddddd 发布：
If you are so pride of China,
Why did you come here and marry the man who is not a Chinese.
Superficial analysis. You shouldn't feel so defensive. Being more objective will make your soul healthier.
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花栗鼠
2005-07-28 11:36
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If you are so pride of China,
Why did you come here and marry the man who is not a Chinese.
中国心：嫁给洋人的中国女人之感慨