最初由 退化人！ 发布：
回复：回复：大家都有道理
国家，主要有2类功能，一个是对外的，一个是对内的。
军队主要行使国家对外的义务。
警察主要行使国家对内的义务。
这个定义是完整的国家的定义和功能里面不能缺少的。
少数人就是政客，也是国家的组成里面一部分。
洗脑，任何国家都有，形式程度不同。我们出来以后才发现，中国洗脑的水平，比美国差距很大。以后还要向美国学习。
Brainwashing or thought reform is the application of coercive techniques to change the beliefs or behavior of one or more people for political purposes. Whether any techniques at all exist that will actually work to change thought and behavior to the degree that the term "brainwashing" connotes is a controversial and at times hotly debated question.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-washing
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-10 21:50
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Country
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
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This article describes a type of political entity. Country is also a short form for the countryside or the country music genre.
A country, a land, is a geographical area that connotes an independent political entity, with its own government, administration, laws, often a constitution, police, military, tax rules, and population, who are one another's countrymen. "Country" is the English equivalent of French pays, Compare the concept of nation, below.
A country may be an independent, self-governing state. All internationally recognized states follow to some degree international standards in terms of the creation of official national symbols such as flags, and political rights such as citizenship. There are currently 192 countries or states recognized by the United Nations, a figure that includes the 191 member nations and the Observer State, Vatican City.
Sometimes, parts of states with a distinct history or culture are called "lands" or "countries": England, Scotland and Wales – the three constituent countries on the island of Great Britain – are often simply known as countries, even though they are effectively governed as "components" of the British state. Ireland is also sometimes called a country, even though it consists of one nation-state (the Republic of Ireland) and one component of a different state (Northern Ireland).
Other times, it is more loosely utilised by nationalists, or by those that sympathise with that nationalist cause, to refer to parts of states with a distinct history, culture, or political view. Thus, Tibet, an autonomous region of China, is described as a 'country' by those that support Tibetan self-government or independence. Northern Ireland, although officially a province of the UK, is also sometimes refered to as a country as the former term can cause offence to supporters of a united Ireland. The term is often used in such situations by those supporting greater autonomy, believing that its use would justify further autonomy. As such, such non-prescriptive use can be an irritation for those that do not subscribe to that nationalist view.
"State" as a synonym for "country" tends to cause confusions for citizens of federated or otherwise regionally divided countries, where a state (law) is a sub-national entity distinguishable from a "province".
Some countries are nation-states – for example, France or Israel. In these nation states one particular nation is dominant. Within France, however the Breton nation represent a proud and cohesive unity, a folk with their own specific heritage. Other states, such as Canada, the People's Republic of China, Spain or the United Kingdom contain several such nations.
The terms country, nation, state and land are casually used as synonyms, but in a more strict usage they are distinguished:
* nation designates a nationpeople, however national and international both confusingly refer as well to matters pertaining to what are strictly states, as in national capital, international law
* state designates a government that exercises full autonomy, and an entity in international law
* land designates the geographical area governed by a state
* country designates a singular unit consisting a state, its people, and its land
Some states consist of non-contiguous parts, separated by land of one or more other states. The Kaliningrad region of Russia is an example of such an exclave; the Oecussi-Ambeno region of East Timor or Nakhichevan, an exclave of Azerbaijan, are others. The largest was Pakistan from 1947 to 1971 when the nation consisted of two parts, West Pakistan and East Pakistan, geographically separated by over a thousand miles, with India in between. Alaska is a U.S. state separated by about 500 miles (800 kilometers) of Canadian territory from the Continental United States. Uzbekistan has seven small "islands" embedded within neighbouring Kyrgystan in the politically charged Fergana Valley.
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退化人！
2005-11-10 19:02
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最初由 Wu Suo Wei 发布：
回复：大家都有道理
军队，警察，在某些国家的定义里面都属于国家机器，怎么能出现罢工的事情！
Because that is dictatorship. Some very little people use police and military as their watchdogs. They brain wash young guys and lure the youth to sacrifice for their benifit.
国家，主要有2类功能，一个是对外的，一个是对内的。
军队主要行使国家对外的义务。
警察主要行使国家对内的义务。
这个定义是完整的国家的定义和功能里面不能缺少的。
少数人就是政客，也是国家的组成里面一部分。
洗脑，任何国家都有，形式程度不同。我们出来以后才发现，中国洗脑的水平，比美国差距很大。以后还要向美国学习。
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-10 18:53
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最初由 退化人！ 发布：
大家都有道理
每一个人的行为，都有其自己的道理。何况说一个大规模的行动。
这叫出师有名。日本人在中国搞屠杀，也都有自己的道理。同理。
特别是加拿大这么民主自由的社会，什么事情都不用惊奇。
不过我还是有些不明白：军队，警察，在某些国家的定义里面都属于国家机器，怎么能出现罢工的事情！
哪天加拿大军队也出去游行示威！我就会明白什么叫国家了！
现在我不能明白。
军队，警察，在某些国家的定义里面都属于国家机器，怎么能出现罢工的事情！
Because that is dictatorship. Some very little people use police and military as their watchdogs. They brain wash young guys and lure the youth to sacrifice for their benifit.
It is our ages responsibility to remind young guys by introducing more medias. Otherwise, they will kill us in the future because they think we are enemy of China.
最初由 wt112 发布：
同意
Do you mean Chinese cops or Canadians ?
Do you mean every cops or some cops ? Then, what is the percentage in that case ?
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-10 18:43
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最初由 清华北大 发布：
你狠，有种你接着写就行，特别是英文，估计“广告管理员”看了后有气干着急，基本就没脾气了。
I dont want they feel too unhappy. I just want to help other Chinese get more sources. I feel it is my responsiblity to tell more truth about life than just follow someone's saying and send back to China to fool my Chinese. Because I love them. I got my high eduaction almost free. I owned something for Chinese. Again, it is a good way to improve my English as well as my thinking. Also, I would like to see a web/BBS of high quality. I appreciate my rights of freedom of speeches in Canada. I hope my Chinese peers in mailland can enjoy these rights too.
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-10 18:39
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最初由 实在人 发布：
警察要有好东东，那“警匪一家”不就是错的了吗？那“天下乌鸦一般黑”又怎么讲？
有个加拿大人跟我说，他的叔叔是警察，一大帮cousins 都是警察。要是截下来大麻，就由他们消灭掉了。这帮警察亲戚发誓说，没有不抽大麻的警察。
有个警察跟我说，他最喜欢的工作是去球场维持秩序，至少有两倍半的工资开。出庭也不错，有两倍。
至于滥用职权，骄横跋扈，无中生有，撒谎打屁，那就多了去了。我这些年和警察打过不少交道，一句话，没有一个好的。使我充分理解了恐怖分子是怎么来的。
Why dont you report to Canadian GOV ?
这帮警察亲戚发誓说，没有不抽大麻的警察。
Who believe that ?
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wt112
2005-11-10 18:30
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最初由 祖宗 发布：
穿制服的是警，不穿制服的是匪。
同意
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-10 18:30
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最初由 祖宗 发布：
看了半天也没看明白你究竟是想说带枪游行是对还是不对！好歹跟诸葛亮有一比：不知所云！
Refer to my saying again. I modified. Thanks.
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清华北大
2005-11-10 18:26
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你狠，有种你接着写就行，特别是英文，估计“广告管理员”看了后有气干着急，基本就没脾气了。
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-10 18:16
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最初由 广告管理员 发布：
事实必须澄清
你可以批评笔者的观点，但笔者的阐述是不是有事实依据，必须澄清一下，以下是今天明报A3版的原文：
据报道，警察工会曾电话联系布莱尔，希望他能够将纪律处分一事大事化小、小事化无。但布莱尔拒绝了工会的要求。对此，警察工会主席威尔逊表示：“警察按章行动仍将继续，直到处罚警员一事能有一个让我们满意的结果。”
笔者的以下评论与以上文字有何出入吗？Wu Suo Wei先生是否认为明报的以上描述有事实出入？
Where did they get the report ? From their journalists or from outher source ? If it is from other sources, please list it out as a reference. If you just say, someone said, my friends told me, how can people, or your readers are convinced ? 据报道 ? Where ? From 布莱尔's office ?
I cited from the star again, refer to the previous citation.
Compare both saying, we can get some ideas about this event.
I hope writers are not misleading so easily.
Also, futher questions. First, Why do you use Nov 10th paper to support your Nov 9th paper ? Can you read their paper earlier than regular readers ? Second, why dont you put the two topics which are talking about the same thing seperatedly ? Is that because the previous topic is more hot than this answer ? or because that topic is not good enough ? or because the response is not what you want to see? By the way, could you give us a reason
or explaination regarding your ranking system for the topics ?
Is that by how many response? how many people joins ? or by how you like it goes for your purpose ?
Thank you again. I am newbie.
======
It was old-fashioned backroom dealing and not just hard negotiations that lead to the breakthrough tentative agreement yesterday that put Toronto police back at the top of the pay scale among Ontario forces.
Both sides claimed it was a good deal but details emerging out of the 30-hour marathon negotiations showed the police board was the big loser. It is estimated the deal, reached at 7:15 a.m. yesterday, will cost the city an extra $60 million for policing over the life of the three-year contract.
On top of that, police officers will continue their job action — refusing to issue traffic tickets and wearing baseball caps instead of regulation police hats — until the deal is ratified, a process that could take three weeks.
One of the key issues — the compressed work week schedule — was pulled off the table by the board and will now be the subject of separate talks by a joint committee. If they can't resolve the issue in three years, the issue will go to arbitration.
最初由 Wu Suo Wei 发布：
Do you mean they are upper, we are lower ? 上行下效 ?
This is Canada.
Even they are wrong, do you thing we need be worse ?
看了半天也没看明白你究竟是想说带枪游行是对还是不对！好歹跟诸葛亮有一比：不知所云！
你可以批评笔者的观点，但笔者的阐述是不是有事实依据，必须澄清一下，以下是今天明报A3版的原文：
据报道，警察工会曾电话联系布莱尔，希望他能够将纪律处分一事大事化小、小事化无。但布莱尔拒绝了工会的要求。对此，警察工会主席威尔逊表示：“警察按章行动仍将继续，直到处罚警员一事能有一个让我们满意的结果。”
笔者的以下评论与以上文字有何出入吗？Wu Suo Wei先生是否认为明报的以上描述有事实出入？
最初由 Wu Suo Wei 发布：
Mr. Zhao's new saying :
"达成了薪酬协议以后，多伦多警察工会还是不干，扬言警察怠工行动还要继续，原因何在？原因就在于，多伦多警察总长布莱尔坚持，对于在游行示威中穿着警服甚至拿着枪的警官要按章处理。而工会方面则认为，这件事情要大事化小、小事化了。" ? ?? ?
Paper in star:
"On top of that, police officers will continue their job action — refusing to issue traffic tickets and wearing baseball caps instead of regulation police hats — until the deal is ratified, a process that could take three weeks."
Read news from different sources. Make your own judgement.
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-09 21:36
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Mr. Zhao's new saying :
"达成了薪酬协议以后，多伦多警察工会还是不干，扬言警察怠工行动还要继续，原因何在？原因就在于，多伦多警察总长布莱尔坚持，对于在游行示威中穿着警服甚至拿着枪的警官要按章处理。而工会方面则认为，这件事情要大事化小、小事化了。" ? ?? ?
Paper in star:
"On top of that, police officers will continue their job action — refusing to issue traffic tickets and wearing baseball caps instead of regulation police hats — until the deal is ratified, a process that could take three weeks."
Read news from different sources. Make your own judgement.
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-09 21:29
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Source: www.thestar.com , find by "toronto police"
Police deal costs city $60M
2005-11-09 00:38:57
Must negotiate in civil manner
2005-11-08 19:55:18
Law and disorder
Police battle over but war isn't
2005-11-08 16:26:14
There’s a deal with the police, but the fight hasn’t ended. A tentative settlement reached this morning won’t end the job action, the Toronto Police Association says, raising the possibility of a showdown with Police Chief Bill Blair over the issue of discipline planned against about 150 officers who defied the chief at a police protest last week.
Police and city talking again
2005-11-08 00:12:32
The police services board says it could save $5 million and put 100 more officers on the street if 2,400 primary response officers on the compressed week schedule put in an additional 3.5 hours per month, Betsy Powell reports.
Cross safely, walkers urged
2005-11-08 00:00:25
November is usually a bad month for pedestrian accidents, and with 25 fatalities already this year Toronto police want to change that trend.
City has responded to boy's mother
2005-11-07 1953
Halloween terror much too real for one teen
Ontario pushes for tougher gun laws
2005-11-07 1143
The Ontario government will demand an increase in mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes at today's meeting of federal and provincial justice ministers, confidential documents show. Robert Benzie reports.
Law and disorder
2005-11-06 19:46:14
The vicious contract dispute between the Toronto Police Services Board and the Toronto Police Association is about much more than a decent deal for cops or what the city can afford to pay them. Linda Diebel lifts the veil on a contract dispute that's getting personal.
Police union and its leader face lawsuit
2005-11-04 2101
Toronto police union president Dave Wilson, embroiled in a contract dispute with the city over officers' salaries, has been served with a $750,000 lawsuit for allegedly making derogatory remarks about his predecessor, Rick McIntosh.
Chief's authority is being ignored
2005-11-04 19:37:40
Officers defy chief
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-09 21:27
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Police deal costs city $60M
Backroom talks led to tentative deal
Key work schedule issue pulled off table
Nov. 9, 2005. 06:42 AM
JOHN DUNCANSON AND TRACY HUFFMAN
STAFF REPORTERS
It was old-fashioned backroom dealing and not just hard negotiations that lead to the breakthrough tentative agreement yesterday that put Toronto police back at the top of the pay scale among Ontario forces.
Both sides claimed it was a good deal but details emerging out of the 30-hour marathon negotiations showed the police board was the big loser. It is estimated the deal, reached at 7:15 a.m. yesterday, will cost the city an extra $60 million for policing over the life of the three-year contract.
On top of that, police officers will continue their job action — refusing to issue traffic tickets and wearing baseball caps instead of regulation police hats — until the deal is ratified, a process that could take three weeks.
One of the key issues — the compressed work week schedule — was pulled off the table by the board and will now be the subject of separate talks by a joint committee. If they can't resolve the issue in three years, the issue will go to arbitration.
Just last week, vice-chair Pam McConnell said the work schedule was key to saving money and putting more officers on the street. "This is about dollars and sense," she said at the time.
Not only did the board give up its fight over its insistence that officers work an additional 3.5 hours a month, it also yielded on the other two key issues: retention pay for senior officers and the length of the contract, according to sources.
"You don't always get what you want," McConnell said. "We believe we accomplished all our goals."
But a senior police official said: "The union got what they wanted."
Tired and drained from the lengthy negotiations, police board chair Alok Mukherjee said the job action played no part in reaching what he called a fair tentative agreement. He did not admit defeat and would not comment on the details of the deal until it has been ratified.
"We believe that this tentative agreement best balances the interests of the board, the men and women of the Toronto Police Service and most importantly the people of Toronto."
Toronto Police Association president Dave Wilson said members will not return to official police attire and regular patrol duties until the contract is ratified. "We will continue with job action. (Until the ratification vote and) discipline issues are resolved to our satisfaction."
Wilson declined to discuss the issues further, saying he preferred to focus on the positives.
Members of the association began a job action Oct. 11, trading in their police hats for association baseball caps. The action quickly escalated with officers refusing to write traffic tickets, only responding to radio calls, and parking their patrol cars between calls. So far the city has lost $1.7 million in ticket revenues because of the job action.
Chief Bill Blair, who was not directly involved with the negotiations, said he was "very, very pleased" a tentative deal had been reached, and hoped the focus could return to policing. An internal investigation is continuing into officers who defied the chief's order not to wear their uniforms to a Nov. 2 rally outside City Hall, Blair said.
"Matters of discipline are not in any way related to contract negotiations. ... They are totally unrelated to today's tentative agreement," Blair said.
The genesis of the tentative deal began with a phone call between two old friends just hours after the union announced 2 1/2 weeks ago that it was going to park its cruisers and only answer radio calls.
The conversation on Oct. 20 was between former police union boss turned broadcaster Craig Bromell and Ralph Lean, the legendary bagman and chief fundraiser for Mayor David Miller's re-election campaign.
`Matters of discipline are not in any way related to contract negotiations'
Police Chief Bill Blair
If the dispute had dragged on, the police job action could have become a major issue in next November's municipal election with Miller being labelled as soft on crime and non-supportive of his police force, the source said.
Also, if the whole messy matter had gone to arbitration, chances were the board would have had an uphill battle getting a decision that included major clawbacks. Arbitration can be a slow process, dragging on for months and possibly into the middle of Miller's re-election campaign.
So, according to sources, the question put to Bromell by Lean was: "How do we get this done?"
The solution that was arrived at by both men, the sources said, was a one-year deal that included removing the contentious issue of the compressed work week by sending it to a joint committee of union and board officials for further study.
Miller was behind the plan but the union rejected it because it wanted a three-year deal.
That failed plan for resolving the contract dispute was the blueprint for yesterday's tentative deal.
After last Wednesday's rally at Nathan Phillips Square, the plan again gained traction. This time, however, it was Hugh Mansfield, of Mansfield Communications, who got the ball rolling. Mansfield's client is the Toronto Police Association and he contacted Lean, sources said.
On Friday, Lean then called Bruce Scott, executive assistant to the mayor. Talks between Lean, Mansfield and Scott continued Saturday when the trio tried to find common ground to bring the sides back to the table.
By Sunday, they had achieved their goal with the union and police board resuming discussions that night. Their job done, the three men simply stayed back and waited for word that a deal had been reached, sources said.
"They sent the pitbull (McConnell) in and when it failed, they decided they needed an out," said one source familiar with the negotiations.
Wilson held an afternoon news conference yesterday, calling the deal a good one. A meeting of the 7,700-member association will be held Sunday when Wilson will present the details of the proposed deal. He said ratifying the deal could take up to three weeks.
The deal includes a 3.75-per-cent raise in the first year to make Toronto officers the highest paid in Ontario, but just by "a cup of coffee" over officers in Peel Region, said a source familiar with the deal. The officers will get a 3.1-per-cent raise in the second year and 3 per cent in the final year of the contract. The board had asked for a four-year deal.
The contract will improve policing and enhance safety for all residents, Mukherjee said. One of the board's priorities during talks was to ensure it had enough money to hire more front-line officers. McConnell said the board remains committed to hiring 50 more officers this year and 150 next year.
"This is a deal everyone can live with," she said. But both McConnell and Mukherjee couldn't provide concrete examples of how this deal will accomplish savings and better police resources.
Miller said he was also pleased with the tentative deal
"The agreement gives the officers what they've been asking for and what they deserve, which is to be the best paid in the province of Ontario. It also gives the City of Toronto and the police board what they needed: the ability to work with the officers to find better ways to get them on the streets when they're needed," he said.
Reached yesterday, Bromell said he didn't have any comment on the contract negations. Lean could not be reached for comment.
with files by Vanessa Lu, Phinjo Gombu and Linda Diebel
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Wu Suo Wei
2005-11-09 21:17
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最初由 群乐茶掌柜 发布：
凡事都有个上行下效的问题，既然警察可以带着枪游行，咱们将来就抗着迫击炮示威算了。
What is 上行下效 ? Do you mean they are upper, we are lower ? So we follow what they've done is correct, right ?
I mean we are equal. I dont want to pissy you off.
Just remind you we are in Canada not China. There is no people are supposed to be superior to others, then there is no upeer and lower.
We have diverse life style and income, that is not to say someone have rights to be super.
Even if they are wrong, do you think we need be worse than wrong behaviors ?
赵平波：多市警察难道不是无理取闹？